Southampton banter 2

20 May 2026 22:13:27
Appeal lost. Championship football next season it is.

I think the appeal was based on solid ground and the wider footballing community seems to agree, that we didn't benefit from what we admitted to.


However I can only think like I said, that it has to be that we spied on more than the teams we admitted to, even if it was just once more and both panels had a feeling about that.

Why else would we continue to do something that failed for such a high risk.

Only time will tell how deep it/long it went on for.

I feel slightly bad for the actual interns/analysts.from what I read it seems they gave statements that they were instructed/forced to go out and do the spying.

Maybe that's just the naivety of Tonda who doesn't think it's that bad. It is hard to determine just how much extra you can learn from observing training that any and every team doesn't already guess/assume anyway.

But then again we did it on multiple occasions and most likely the majority of the season with Tonda, so it must've been something he wanted/needed.

Does he stay or go?

Can he repeat what he did this season, next season of he stays with what will most likely be a weaker team and the absence of a spying advantage?

Man how I wish Ryan & Rob or someone likewise would come and buy us out, we need the Libhier feel good hierarchy at the club again.

Everything stems from that.

20 May 2026 23:19:36
Lesleeee
We've not always seen eye to eye. well actually never! But let's discuss this reasonably.
so we send an intern to watch Middlesbrough train. we use someone that is clearly shown in saints staff photos, he is stood in full view, no attempt to hide, using an iPhone

That makes no sense!! Not even covert or decent video equipment???

Secondly we have a great squad, goalscorers from everywhere, a fantastic goalkeeper and defence.

Playing excellent football

So we send a student out with an iPhone to film the opponents and in full view!!

Madness

20 May 2026 23:37:02
There are some fundamental flaws in what has happened and the short version is that the EFL process has completely disregarded the process of 'natural justice' in the name of expedience.

There has never been a judicial process convened to arbitrate on a conviction within less than 24 hours. If someone was destined for the gallows, it takes many years to reach that point on appeal. This judicial process has been rushed without due regard for 'normal process'.

One must question also the independent status of the panel all of whom were paid fees of circa £15k for their role in presiding over the appeal debacle.

They were under pressure to follow the EFL representations. I am familiar with this legal territory and my argument would have been that they were not truly independent. It is simply not polssibel to convene an independent panel in less than 12 hours.

Notwithstanding this, and as I have previously reported, the club's response is hugely embarassing - basically we are sorry and will work with the EFL to make sure it doesn't happen again.

That is so pathetic it's painful. Of course this will have been guided by lawyers who incidentally will have prospered enormously from our demise.

I cannot begin to describe how every day it feels like living a walk of shame.

We 'march on' many of you say, but I'm not sure I can. I am and always have been a passionate supporter but I no longer recognise this club. Shame on them.

21 May 2026 00:20:50
I agree Southhants, I see your olive branch and I'll extend mine.

I'm on the fence as to whether the training actually helped or it didn't. It clearly didn't give us an edge in the Middlesbourgh game and subsequently the games that we admitted to/know of, so why do it?

The more I read/look into in it seems that in places like Germany, although frowned upon, its more seen as an ugly side of the game there, a bit like over here when managers employ "the dark arts" such turning water off in the away changing rooms, or if the opposition has a throwin specialists and so moving the touchline a few inches ect but not worth the criminal outrage that it has earned over here.

With that in mind I think maybe Tonda was just naive.

But then that thinking only works for one or two occasions, it's a bit of a lame excuse for something that was most likely occurring for the majority of the season for Tonda to say, he "simply didn't know". I find it hard to believe no one called him out on it, especially the interns who said in the hearing they were instructed/forced to do it.

To me though the second part of your post does make sense. I'm not looking for an argument and I know you will refuse to believe me, but that talented squad you mentioned, was all put in place by Will Still. Even the signings that came after he was sacked were ones already in motion i'd say, as they were key positional signings (decent goalkeeper/strong physical striker) that I/we have all established on here for a long while.

I think the elephant in the room here is that Tonda really wasn't that great and potentially, extremely out of his depth. It's plausible he managed to pull off the greatest con in football history by both playing and utilitising a team (even tactics) that weren't his and through spying.

Sure I'm going out on a bit of a limb there and time will tell (if he stays) but the out of depth/con man theory fits more in place then anything else now that this spying story is out in the open and the more we know about it.
Ironically I'm probably one of the few people who wants Tonda to stay on, not because I'm playing devils advocate (I am guilty of that) but because I/we have a right to know what he's made of and wether this season was built on lies.

I don't buy into this fan logic of it being filmed on an iPhone so less quality, apple famously advertise the filming of whole massive budget premier movies with just their iPhones, so I'm sure the capturing of any footage was good enough to view.

21 May 2026 17:16:19
I have considerable doubt that the cheating is what is behind Tonda's tactical abilities.
As we all suspect, he is definitely "on the spectrum". a classic of this is obsession and I actually think he is obsessed with game plans, winning, tactics
My understanding is are used to spend hours and hours and hours studying videos of the opponents
It's no different to the young boy obsessed with video games, a classic spectrum symptom.


I still can't get my head around the fact that they used an intern in full view, without A Car in the world. That would tie in with his comment that he didn't know it was banned.


All that effort and all about winning streak and those amazing performances over months, wasted It's back to square one


Sadly, I think we will lose the backbone of the team, especially the goalkeeper who has been amazing


It's back to the drawing board


I believe totally in the manager


While I understand your points about cheating


Our performance is against Arsenal and Manchester City were fantastic


That was excellent football management
Under all the Cloak and Dagger is an excellent manager

21 May 2026 21:24:24
But now for the good of the club and the fans surely he had to be sacked. What will the world think of us if he survived. The pressurising of the young interns in the written reasons is sickening.

We have to cleanse now and start over. I don't understand why it has not already happened. Put Adam in charge and try and move on. Tonga will be banned anyway in due course so might as well get on with it now

20 May 2026 17:10:34
Hammers fan in peace⚒Want to comment on that absolutely abusive treatment to your club from the band of overpaid tossers in charge of the FA.
Stupid effing rule anyway, does someone watching opposing team train make you win the game when you next play OF COURSE IT BLOODY WONT???So much sympathy for your club & paying fans, DISGRACEFUL, we'll be playing you next season ???⚒⚒⚒⚒COYI

20 May 2026 17:46:37
Lol you're the first ever outsider here (non saints fan) I think.

If nothing else, this saga has brought new people to us ?

20 May 2026 17:49:56
Thanks mate. It's harsh but what we have done is wrong

Hopefully there is a balance

20 May 2026 20:42:03
Feel better that a Saints have instructed Lord Pannick KC very heavy weight lawyer for tonight's appeal. City use him and he was successful in 2020. We shall see ?

20 May 2026 10:51:28
Well, Eds, that's a cleaner version of the one I wrote ?

I do believe my post started with,

Tonda's a tactical genius.

I'm a madman.

Apparently.

At least now we know where that 'genius' was coming from. Too many were too readily to accept it.

I even said I would take Still back early into Tonda's reign and I was laughed at for that too. At least he had integrity and was trying to build something from the ground up, Tonda literally stood on his shoulders and benefited from everything he was creating.

The irony of the whole cheating thing though is that we got caught with 3 games of the season left to go ?

I don't think our appeal will be accepted. If it was a one off I could see us still being in the final, as any neutrals can see it didn't give us a edge in that game. But I feel the multiple occurrences has led the panel to seeing that the spying has been a factor in propelling us into a playoff place that we potentially wouldn't have been in, without. I'm sure they agree there must have been at least one other occasion where it did benefit us (a win) otherwise why would we carry it on.

Saintggg/Southants, I hope the bump on the head isn't too big from that fall of yours.

☕?

We're all saintsfans at the end of the day and want what's best for the club.

On a side note - I am now interested to see wether Tonda stays and wether the spying thing was genuinely something he couldn't succeed without or wether it was naivety and pressures of being a new young manager being trusted into the limelight. If he does stay, next season will be interesting and it's where we'll get to judge him going forward, which is what I've been constantly saying all season we should be doing anyway.

20 May 2026 12:45:10
Lesleee, now's not the time

20 May 2026 13:35:11
It is, because we move on.

I seem to be one of the only few who was prepared for this outcome/saw it building throughout the season but couldn't put my finger on it.

I'm not gloating, just suppose I mean I was more emotionally/logically ready for it.

I could say there's vindication in being called a madman ?

Alas all that matters is like what the club always say, we march on.

The main thing is damage control for me. Forget the playoffs, forget Tonda and his team if necessary, but do everything possible to keep ALL the players we have. If that means meeting whatever demands they have meet them.

It's hard enough to keep hold of a team/players when your having success but now that job is going to be nye on impossible.

The board will gain back some respect from me if they're able to achieve that.

20 May 2026 15:34:37
Miller you are a gent sir.

Leslee I admit I was wrong about my prediction but I maintain we were right to await the outcome (and the appeal). But let's not fool around, this does not mean that suddenly we were better off with Will Still. You talk utter nonsense for 90% of the time.

That said I think the appeal has some legs, it is totally disproportionate. Although taking everything into account I think we should own it and only fight the points.

20 May 2026 16:57:48
Thank you SaintGGG - I've not often had that accolade lol!

I'm disappointed with the limp wristed, half baked apology from the CEO, Phil Parsons. To say we as fans "deserved better of the club" doesn't begin to touch the sides. Hopefully, there will be more affirmative action.

As the hour of truth approaches, my mood has swung from one of pessimism to a ray of light. Our old gaffer Harry Redknapp feels it is OTT (I suppose he would wouldn't he!) and Gary Lineker has said much the same.

The only problem is, neither of them are sitting in judgement.

20 May 2026 17:12:11
No, I've spoke the same thing I've spoke all season and the things I say have merit and end up having validation.

If Will Still had cheated like Tonda did, who knows where he would have taken us ?

20 May 2026 17:54:53
Based on his points per game, probably relegation. Luckily this does nothing to amend his points per game ration, that's set in stone in history. I will accept your reluctance to accept Tonda turned out to be on point - that part was obviously on the 10% side of that you say

I agree with miller about the ray of hope. Although the apology was poor there are some decent facts about past cases of punishment. Not because of Harry though, I don't believe he has ever erm taken advantage of anything

20 May 2026 18:25:55
Leslee, what I tried to say tactfullly is that you need to read the room. This is not the time for "I told you so ." platitudes.

We're all hurting and Will Still is an unwelcome irrelevance right now.

SaintGGG - I was hoping for Harry, Sam Allardice and possibly Bruce Grobbelar to form the panel.

Sorry, humour sometimes helps!

20 May 2026 20:20:56
Hahaha

20 May 2026 21:04:05
I do read the room Miller.

Like it's ok for to me say the writings on the wall and get called a madman for it, thiugh no one was reading the room than ? ?

We're all big boys and die by sword of the words we say.

20 May 2026 09:54:05
{Ed's Note - lesleee has posted a new article entitled, Eckert, Scrutiny and Southampton’s Next Steps

20 May 2026 07:39:02
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Aston Villa v Liverpool - A Not So Quick Liverpool Perspective

19 May 2026 22:43:02
The feeling is worse than relegation - a thousand times worse.

The soul has been ripped out of our club.

We now have 10 years of toxic abuse from fans at every club we play.

As I said, it's a generational thing - and one which won't go away in our life times.

What doesn't make much sense though is that it is ok to spy 73 hours before a game, but not 72 hours.

To overturn the decision would be a very brave decision and highly improbable.

Meanwhile radio silence at St Mary's - shocking.

20 May 2026 17:57:25
I very much felt like this until this morning but since then I have come to accept that whilst we will be punished, I just think with this being a "final"decision we will at least get the points back, and if we are lucky enough to be reinstated then there can't be a come back in terms of the final

19 May 2026 20:01:33
And every person involved in this scandal should be sacked immediately - do it tonight because that will send a message that we care about our integrity.

Even if we put the tea lady in charge, if this involves Tonda, it's the right thing to do.

19 May 2026 20:28:11
Absolutely agree. Made mugs out of us long standing fans. I'm disgusted with the club.

19 May 2026 22:00:10
Look I get all that and I am sickened too. But they received no credit for nit running a contested hearing and not only have they been expelled but given points. It's massively over the top imo and it's been trial by media and the panel have been influenced.

That's not right and not received a fair hearing. Need to ask Europe court of arbitration to review the decision. I love my club and not players or fans fault. Penalised the fans. Should be a huge fine and points.

19 May 2026 22:12:36
We can't have any complaints. We've admitted to cheating, the media doesn't come into it. We've said ourselves that we're guilty. They have every right to sanction us as heavily as they want to. And apparently Tonda was leading the spying efforts not realising it was against the rules.

That's not an excuse. This is systemic cheating, and we've been penalised to the largest extent (expect being relegated).

The main point of frustration and anger from the fans shouldn't be at the decision, it should be at our club for wasting this season on lies and fraud, and they haven't had the immediate courtesy to admit it to us, apologise, or stop when they knew what they were doing was wrong.

19 May 2026 22:34:20
The biggest problem now is whether any of the players want to stay. Most of them may have stayed and fought again next season if we had played at Wembley and lost but I can see us having to start again now. Absolutely disgusted with the club.

19 May 2026 19:22:37
Sickening - I feel physically sick.

19 May 2026 19:57:56
And our chances of having it overturned on appeal are basically zero.

19 May 2026 20:04:21
Disgusted with my club. No complaints with the sanctions. We knew what we were doing was wrong and did it multiple times. Idiots. That 20 game unbeaten run, the extra time winner, probably the run to the cup semis, all lies.

We wouldn't have only spied on 2nd, 3rd and 22nd. Unless they happened to be the easiest targets. This surely runs deeper. Tonda will go, most of the board will go, most of the squad will go.

This is one of the worst days in the history of the club and I don't see how we come back from this. We blatantly cheated. For months. We probably really were a team bound for successive relegations.

But the real worst part. We admitted to spying for three games. Games we lost, drew, and drew. If it is just those three occasions, WHAT WAS EVEN THE POINT OF ANY OF IT.

So deeply upsetting. All that hope and expectation built on cheating. I could cope if we were relegated. If we were just not a good football side. I cannot abide by my team cheating.

Unless heads roll, this club may slowly start to die.

19 May 2026 20:08:35
And nor should we. We've been cheating for last 6 months at least. I'm 44 and life long Saint, first game in '89 and this.this is by far the worst I've felt. Disgraceful, embarrassing and shameful. We've been a lot of things but never cheats. Like u say its sickening and heads must roll

19 May 2026 22:26:05
Let's not forget in all this, we have a team fully capable of winning promotion. This is not the case of cheating being the reason we are/were in the playoffs. Goalscorers all over the pitch, a magnificent goal keeper, defence.
We have played superb attacking and defensive football.
What I don't understand is why why we have allowed or used an internet, a young lad to stand filing an opponent. not some fancy equipment but an iPhone and in full view.
I still think the intern was renegade and out to impress, but we should have stopped it!
You can watch every single opponent on tv or streaming an iPhone video is hardly going to add to the knowledge!

Absolutely bizarre!

Using someone in secret with top recording equipment. that would be covert
A young lad with an iPhone in full view. costing the club 200M. now that doesn't make sense one bit.

Appeal time. This is going to run.

19 May 2026 09:08:13
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Aston Villa v Liverpool - A Not So Quick Liverpool Perspective

17 May 2026 07:39:02
{Ed's Note - YoungBlue2001 has posted a new article entitled, A Supporter’s Case Against the SFA’s Standards