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Team: Southampton


Where from: Fareham


Favourite player: Ron Davies


Best team moment: Fa Cup 76


Interests: Saints Golf Saints


Timezone: (GMT -5:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada), Bogota, Lima




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Vintagesaint's rumours posts with other poster's replies to Vintagesaint's rumours posts

 

24 Jan 2019 17:11:47
Reading that Inter are offering £17m for Cedric which I think all would agree is a very decent deal. I also read RH is not looking to bring any players in during this window and he is confident of avoiding relegation.
There is no doubt that RH has grabbed everyone's attention with his management style, it looks like we have an exceptional talent who is delivering results in a result business. What is encouraging for me is that the majority of the players have bought into his philosophy and we have all seen a dramatic improvement in jwp, Redmond, and others. Those that didn't or were unable to have been moved on or will be let go in the future. I genuinely believe we could be in for an exciting few months as Saints fans, where we can actually look forward to the next match, and St Mary's regains it's fortress status.
COYR.

Vintagesaint

1.) 24 Jan 2019 21:59:10
I think that if £17m is correct I would bite their hands off. We have several players who can play in that position and that would give RH some money to bring in someone that he wants. Also free up more money as Cedric was reportedly one of the top earners.


2.) 25 Jan 2019 11:50:56
This is not correct, the BBC are reporting a loan with the option to buy for around 9.5 million. A bit disappointing if you ask me.


3.) 25 Jan 2019 11:51:29
Reports today are a little pessimistic on the financial front with Inter now believed to simply be paying less than 1m euros for a loan for the remainder of the season with an option to buy at a price of about 11m euros. All in, that would be about £10m. In today's market, that seems low for a member of the Portuguese squad that are current Euro champions. He's been a solid and regular player for us since then as well. I guess the price will be influenced by Cedric's wish to leave, RH's happiness to offload him and the January window being an awkward one to do business.


4.) 25 Jan 2019 12:30:23
Does anyone think 500k for a loan deal is a bit low? Maybe saints want boufal back from his loan?


5.) 25 Jan 2019 14:14:28
I've read that his release clause is only 11m, but if they loan him then he'll cost 1m, then they'll have the option to buy for 20m after, so they're shooting themselves in the foot.


 

 

18 Sep 2018 00:27:13
Hi guys

Well that was nailbiting! First half positives Lemina, Hoojberg, Redmond actually producing some good runs, Danny Ings a real handful. Brighton woeful.
Second half- Everyone retreating into their shell, going 2 up never looked enough. When Brighton got their free kick I knew they would score and then you know Saints they were always going to concede. I worry about the entire back 4 Betrand and Cedric look lightweight and Hoedt and Westergaard look immobile and certainly not physically intimidating.

You can blame jwp for the penalty but he should not have been marking Duffy, it was a totally unequal physical mismatch. So we have a lack of leaders or people willing to take responsibility, these guys are highly paid seasoned pros but for me what is worse we cannot string 3 passes together and resort to hopeful long balls forward to 2 small forwards with no hope of winning them.

Again too many balls back or sideways and a lack of movement off the ball, throw ins are a waste of time and so many passes poorly weighted or poorly placed and we always look overrun in midfield. Why oh why do we keep inviting teams onto us we cannot defend, I was hopeful this season but now not all any physical teams or better passing teams which is just about everyone and we will get slaughtered. Saturday at Anfield we will be lucky to keep it to single figures.

Vintagesaint

1.) 18 Sep 2018 07:16:35
We shouldn't be dropping points from a 2-0 lead at home. That should be the end of it. I don't MH made the right calls with his subs last night. Unfortunately, Brighton's first goal came straight after our second goal meaning that he probably didn't have enough time to assess the game. However, he then brings on JWP and Gabbaidini. JWP is one of the worst physical midfielders in the league. I don't know how those substitutes were meant to serve a purpose to our lead, he then went on to give away a penalty. According to the SS commentators we've had dropped 11 points from leads during MH time with us. It's now 13. He's only managed 13 games.


2.) 18 Sep 2018 10:26:59
Sorry but that was pathetic. 2-0 ahead and only need to see the game out so we bring on 2 of the smallest and least defensive minded players. After that I think that we are going to struggle to finish this season anywhere other than bottom 3. How Hughes can think we'll see a game out with players that can't tackle is beyond me.


3.) 18 Sep 2018 10:48:45
To me the biggest concern from start to finish was that we didn't have any kind defensive balance at all! Players just ran like headless chickens around. We made it so easy for BHA to attack even they were very poor.


4.) 18 Sep 2018 11:24:58
The go to argument every time we get a bad result should not be to blame the players for not taking responsibility, not caring enough or not showing enough passion whilst adding they are highly paid. So are all Premier League players. I remain confident in the abilities of the players. Instead, when there is collective shortcoming, coaching must be an issue. I’m not talking simply about the formation here. Yes, I think a 4-4-2 in the modern game and with the players that we have is outmoded, impractical and ineffective, but I see no identity, style, plan, individual or team improvement. No tactics specific to our players strengths, nor to beat the opposition. Just the same players running around each week and playing out the same directionless 90 minutes over and over.

Last night’s result wasn’t bad luck, nor a lack of responsibility by the players. Brighton’s pen was a result of the defensive tactics used for corners. We mark zonally hence the mismatch between JWP and Duffy. If the marking was wrong, it was because the preparation and tactics were wrong rather than anyone hiding or not doing their job. Brighton specifically switched their tactics and formation to a 4-3-3 to overrun our midfield and, ignoring the limpness of the first half, for the time it was used properly in the second half, it was very effective. MH made no changes to counteract Brighton’s supremacy, a huge momentum swing in their favour, despite only an average first half from us and seeing us come under increasing pressure in the second.

But crucially, there doesn’t seem to be any plan when we attack. Its totally reliant on the individuals on the pitch working it out for themselves. I recently watched the Man City doc on Amazon and the little glimpses into Pep’s coaching were fascinating. Everyone delights in the attacking freedom of Barcelona, Bayern and Man City under Pep, but its not the freedom he gives the players that allows this; its precisely the opposite. He drills his players with and without the ball. In certain situations, the players need to be in specific positions and they repeat the action over and over so everyone knows where on the pitch they should be and the player on the ball learns instinctively where his options are. Pep shows his players where the defenders will be, whether they will press or stand off and what they should look to do in any given situation. Obviously a match doesn’t play out exactly as one predicts, but most actions will remain effective. If things aren’t working as expected, the coaching still pays off as the players have plans B and C conditioned into them from prep for other games which will still feel natural and play fluently. Incredible.

So when I see us attack and the players looking uncertain, hesitant, it just makes me think the coaching falls short. When I see us defend and look so flustered, its because the coaching is lacking. The players aren’t sure what to do and if something isn’t working, they’re not told how to fix it. MH doesn’t make changes from the touchline quickly. Even when subs came on, they didn’t improve us and invited Brighton on. Pep’s clearly a bit of a control freak, but so are most of the best managers in the world. They understand at this level, every detail, every action is crucial and can make or break the game. That’s why they want more control, not less. You can’t just hand the game to the players and say its over to you. That’s not to absolve the players for their shortcomings but I think these are exaggerated by a lack of good preparation and coaching. Are our players better than those at Bournemouth? In the main, yes. Are Bournemouth a better team? Yes. Why? Coaching. Simples.


5.) 18 Sep 2018 13:32:49
Yep agree with you figo. I wondered why not a single defensive substitute came on after 2-0. we had Gabbi, Davis and JWP who gave the pen away. why did we not see Yoshida or targett? . seems obvious that brighton will try and win set pieces after their first goal. coaching does seem a bit crazy.


6.) 18 Sep 2018 18:32:30
Hi figo

I agree with you regarding the coaching but I believe it goes beyond that. These are top players who have played a lot of football and too many players went missing last night, there are not enough leaders on the pitch. We all remember John Terry, Steve Bruce barking orders at everyone, we don't have that the second half too many players went missing and in the end Brighton wanted it much, much more than us, Glenn Murray was starved of any decent service but he kept going the whole 90 minutes and was never going to miss that penalty. We used to talk about a team having a spine going from keeper to forward but we don't have that! We have spent £50m this summer and we seem no better off, you mention Bournemouth and I am a big admirer of Eddie Howe, this is a team that punches above it's weight totally consistent with limited resources but when they buy a player they will spend big if necessary and they rarely make a mistake, they play entertaining football,
score goals and are always competitive and look like the new Burnley. I agree with the coaching as we could barely string 3 passes together and the idea of us playing out from the back on the ground in neat little triangles is light years away. I think that we can get hung up on formations, our problem which has been deep seated for some time before MH is we play like Manchester United happy to invite teams onto us 'defending' deep and then break the only problem is we can't defend and when we break it's normally too slow and ponderous. We lack players who will tackle consistently and hard over 90 minutes and then use the ball intelligently. Brighton were woeful in the first half and we should have created and scored more, they were there for the taking. In the past I have questioned the teams fitness as we seem unable to see out the whole 90 minutes and nothing seems to have changed, I also watched the programme on Man City and you are right Figo they play beautiful simple football and it is all about drill and repeated practice Chelsea, Liverpool are playing the same way and Wolves are a joy to watch. I feel MH needs to really get hold of this squad which we know has quality players, getting them believing in themselves and their team mates and taking personal responsibility for their positions. I hope we see a significant improvement on Saturday at Anfield as otherwise I believe we could be in for a hiding.


7.) 18 Sep 2018 19:53:39
Ha Ha - we want to defend and counter but can't do either. Too true!

If the players at your disposal aren't suited to play a certain way, you play to their strengths.

We do need some sound leadership on the pitch, I can't disagree, but I feel that the players will be less flappable if they had a clear plan to follow. I just don't see one.

I'm now going to watch Liverpool take on PSG. I wonder how they'll cope against us after a dry run warm up against those guys.


8.) 18 Sep 2018 21:04:14
I agree with you but I go back to my point these are seasoned professionals and we cannot string half a dozen passestogether, it's amateurish in the extreme.


9.) 19 Sep 2018 09:21:30
The downfall and lack of leadership seems to have been lost when we sold Fonte. You'd expect someone to stand up and become a leader. Davis is captain, but he rarely plays anymore. Bertrand wears the armband, but I'd question his attitude towards the club. A lot of our squad still remain from our best season: Bertrand, Cedric, Romeu, Long, Yoshida, Davis, JWP.


10.) 19 Sep 2018 16:39:49
hojbjerg for captain.


 

 

21 Jan 2018 18:12:17
Hi guys
A much better performance, yes we rode our luck but better ball retention, Gabbiadini total waste of space, if the ball is not laid on a plate he throws his toys out, his body language is crap, send him back to Italy, why is Stevens going for that header rather than him, even Tadic had a great game, Boufal needs to toughen up, but we were well organised, but second half lapse back into inviting teams onto us, I still don't think we are as fit as other teams but we need to play like this every game! We can get out of this. coyr.

Vintagesaint

1.) 21 Jan 2018 19:00:11
It was a better performance, but I guess it is true about fine margins with a couple of close chances for both teams.


 

 

19 Nov 2017 17:49:54
Hi guys just read the match review on here from a Liverpool perspective and Saints were described as abysmal, no attacking threat and scathing about, Van Dyck, Bertrand, Cedric and their defensive capabilities. It doesn't make pretty reading, I feel sorry for our fans who travelled up yesterday and watched that s---. I think the club should offer to refund them at least!

Vintagesaint

1.) 20 Nov 2017 09:36:36
If anyone should know about a lack of defensive capabilities it is Liverpool. They were alright testamerday as we had no attacking threat. They also had mane Henderson and Coutinho back so that wasn’t great timing from us. I don’t think it’s down to the manager as it wasn’t down to puel last year I think it’s time for a major shake up and if we can get 60 odd m for VVD after paying off the hoops we should sell him and move in . The whole team appear to be playing with fear and yet again tadic makes one mistake and Salah scores a great finish we need some out an out pace up from and that makes teams keep some players back for the break away and we don’t have that. Survival this season then we need a serious reorg after that.


2.) 23 Nov 2017 03:12:38
I toldly disagree! Sorry. but our manager isn't the right man for us it seems. we all know this is a result business however far more important something is the performance it's self! If we played well but lose we can handle that no worries.

On balance I think we saint fans do not tend to rush and press the panick button when things start going wrong. After all those of us who are long in the tooth have been there and seen it all before.

That said we've had the best opportunity for years to get a good start to the season with the team's we've played. No game is easy of course but tactically our manager is up the river without a paddle. No shots on or off target in a few games this season already? These poor performances is down to lack of conference our players have in the manager and his style of play he has asked of them.

I see some of you blame the players for their efforts and form that's a shame when we've all seen them play outstanding for us in past! Do they become poor players over night? Or might it be something to do with the board selling some of our world class players and losing a couple world class managers by doing so.


I will always be greatful to Markus and KL but it can be safely said she has had a exit plan for sometime. But We are in a
far better place because of them. So they have my respects. KL has the profits so win win end of.

We may need to go through the same process with the new owners as well in time we will see if that is to come true. Only they will need to claw back around 300 million! To do so.

Time to be ruthless get rid of the manager asap replace with Koeman!
Remember the top six teams rarely lost a world class players season after season like we have and still move forward like we did. The board may of felt confident after hitting the jackpot a few times but nobody keeps winning all the time.

World class players don't grow on trees. Sale one and the others lose faith in the board and club as a whole. That is what happen here!
Reality bites.


3.) 26 Nov 2017 19:01:19
So today same players and manager and u still don’t disagree he didn’t gloat or told you so but just reiterated his beliefs and mantra the team played well 1-11 regardless and the crowd helped. Let’s joinn forces behind him he could be anything and the Clive be anything with him. Bring back koeman are you taking the piss everyone players and staff hated him. I’d rather stick than twist at the moment.


4.) 27 Nov 2017 17:52:09
Ok we will have to agree to disagree about Kidman yourviews are just as important as my are.


What I personal liked about koeman was the way he handle the media personally I hate them generally as they are parasites.

I couldn't possible know if the players hated him as you said as that's hear say! The fact remains he got us in Europe which ment he got results. Which ment he did job well like him or not!

The reason we didn't progress well in Europe was because wanmama antics refusing to play! Who's to blame for that?

As for Norman's short lived Everton career wow after one season he took them forward masively leapfroging us!

Then giving him just 9 games this season to gell together so many new players is nonsense! Just because their new chairman is ex KGB Russian.

{Ed001's Note - he was sacked because he was an arrogant tit who was hated by the players and staff at the club. He refused to fulfil his contracted obligations with regard to community activities, both at Saints and Everton and was roundly hated by all the staff at both. Nothing to do with your nonsense about the new chairman, when the Everton chairman is in fact the same one, Bill Kenwright, who has never been anything to do with the KGB. Why spout such ignorant lies?}


5.) 28 Nov 2017 10:32:05
Ok sorry for the misunderstanding on Everton chairman front: kenwright has always been a cool guy. So it's my mistake but I was trying (badly) to reference Everton's controling owner e. g. the one with the real power! He is connected in Putin and the k. G. B and his money. So said a T. V documenty I saw two weeks.

As for his refuseal to fulfilling his contact with us you are again correct!
However, I blame both party's for this. firstly Koeman, yes he not without blame.

But I blame our board mostly. Because they had the power! But they chose to showed weakness instead. Letting him go for 5 million to Everton, when he got us in Europe. Therefore under valuing the job he did for us.

If our clubs board showed some consistances which I feel they must.

The answer every single time should be the same. Which is your under contract your going nowhere full stop! Which means he couldn't of excepted the Everton job in the first place.
Losing 5 million compo would mean little to a club our size at the end of the day. Showing some balls and consistencey would prove a point to the media, players and managers alike. Stop messing with us.

let players contacting run down if they wish to move at the end it fair play. If we pay 18 million for a player who score 20 plus goals per season and signed Five contact his value to us is approx 3.6 million a season real worth ( plus wages) peanuts! In the footballing world today.


As for your claim all the staff and players didn't like him one bit if true ( again that is hear say)
Please point me towards a video clip to watch to prove your point?
Then I'll give your view some weight.
That said nobody gets on with everyone all the time. Frankly it's not his job to be liked nor is it the most important personal quailtly to have in a manager Getting job done is.! Nobody can argue he took us forward therefore did his job well.
Koeman took us forward in both his season with us! Otherwise Everton wouldn't of headhuntered him.

I'm short I'm not asking you to like him just merely respect the great job did for us.

Frankly in a fantasy world if I was in the saints manager Job I'll be hard nosed about it full stop! I'm not the type person to start Licking players asses. Tell them to Shutup your paid to do a job get on with it! If you refuse to play I will break them. Likewise I'll deal with media in the same way ( have they shown us respect)
In my view No! So I wouldn't be showing them respact. It is better to be feared as a manager then liked.

{Ed001's Note - whatever. Your ignorance is astonishing, which is no wonder as you are dismissive of anyone else's view. I really can't be bothered with you. It is pointless talking to someone who doesn't want to listen so I won't.}


6.) 29 Nov 2017 11:50:04
I am just impressed Ed managed to understand this.


7.) 30 Nov 2017 10:07:34
4thelove, it was well documented that koeman was strongly disliked by first team players, some staff and pretty much all the younger players.

I believe the quote from mane was "he's an arrogant asshat". Koeman got lucky to not get sacked by saints. If it wasn't for Shane long going on a goal scoring run (hard to believe I know) a couple of years ago that pulled us up the league, koeman could have lost his job then.

He absolutely tore Matty targett to shreds in front of the whole squad, ward-prowse hated him. Even for a Dutch bloke koeman is arrogant and it was only a matter of time until things turned very sour at everton. Koeman is great for a season, and then things tend to go wrong for him.

At saints he did sod all community work, refused to promote any youth players, and didn't spend long enough at the training ground or on the pitch. seems he made those same mistakes at everton too. Getting 5-6 million for him was bloody good business for a manager who refused to commit to us and sign a new contract. This information was leaked over 18 months ago. But obviously because there are no videos of staff confirming it, it's all rubbish? Jeez.


8.) 30 Nov 2017 13:54:26
MilkySaint you make some fair points here!
well said I take on board. However note no youth player has broken through since he's left so maybe he had a point here in his views.

I do recall mane turning up late for training a couple of times as well so has reason to dislike him for fining him and dropping him as well.

As for comminity work I can't be sure he refused to all that was asked of him but do know he came to look at young youth player here in Botley for some one on one training a few times.

I can't support his actions towards Matt Target even though I personal think Matt will never be of premiere quaitly. As I believe he'll be soon be sold on.

Also I can't agree with you in hindsight can you honestly say another season under Koeman wouldn't of been far better then it was under C. P?
and the flat boring season we had?
No with all his faults another season under Koeman over the season we had with C. P and a possible another season in Europe would be my personal choice.
It's also about our apporch of forcing managers, players to honour their contacts!
invoking this consinsdencely would mean we wouldn't need to put up with player saga's season after season.
we've put up with this s. t for years
believe me when I say if I was The Saint manager in a fantasy world I would told V. V. D your never be sold by Southampton nor will you play for as again forcing him to wait until he was 30 years to play a professional game again only then when we are perpare to rueing a player will we get the respect we deserve.


9.) 03 Dec 2017 12:39:21
It's not the managers choice. It's down to the board. After selling lallana etc and fans kicking off we has to set a precedent and tell vvd he's going nowhere.

Last season we had McQueen and sims come in to the squad and play Well. If they can continue to improve then they are potential first team players in the next couple of years.

As for last season under puel, we finished 8th in the league and reached the league cup final (which we deserved to win) without key injuries to vvd and Austin and without the jose fonte issue maybe we'd have done even better.

We told koeman to stay and sign a new contract to show his commitment. He didn't want to so we replaced him. How can you expect players to sign new deals and commit if the manager refuses to do So?

So no, I don't think another season under koeman would have been "far better". it could have been far worse.


10.) 04 Dec 2017 13:57:01
You can't really expect any manager to commit themselves to Southampton at the time with our track record of selling some of best players season after season?
when they have ambision of their own which isn't being reciprocated at the club they are at!

Ok we got to a final fair play to C. P and we played well in that match and we was unlucky to lose you are correct. One match doesn't make season of watching boring entertainment value football.

The fact for most of the season it was boring to watch sideways passing just to keep the ball. Finishing 8th on a total of 46 points over koeman's two season finishes of 7th 60 points high tempo style and pleasing to watch follow by a 6th on 63 points total. if that isn't going backwards I don't what is?

The fact remains players and in some cases managers don't have the time in their careers to wait around till everything fits into place for them to succeed where they are at. In hindsight I am sure Koeman thinks he should of stayed here with us. At the time I bet he thought he was being undermined. His efforts not truely valued.

But Everton fc offered him more personal money and more money to spend on the squad. However, if we stop! and thought about it.

Poeple/ owners at Everton also tend to be impatient. Success is required now! And needs to be Constancely moving forward progress all the time.

Koeman couldn't deliver that so was sacked by Everton's controling owner!
Interesting to note That Everton have just replace him with the person who finished one place behind koeman in 7th in the season 14/ 15 who was sacked in that year at west ham? For playing borning style of football.

Doesn't that make you wonder how lucky we have been to of had Markcus and Kat as our owners these last few years?

No in hindsight I'll take Slow, steady and balance progress over the poker style of Everton owners today for sure.

while it maybe difficult for me to except we have needed to lose many a world class player to remain where we are today a mid table team. Note none of our ex players have won anything yet in their careers since leaving us! So maybe we are all wrong sometimes. We easily forget the club itself is the most important thing in the end. The caretaking roll Markcus and K. L have done for the club and supporters has been fantastic and we need to step back and try to remember that.

We may lose a few world class players and managers along the way but they are not the most important thing to hold on to the club is forever a deadicated follower of Southampton.


11.) 04 Dec 2017 19:28:49
I agree with that completely 4thlove.
Many fans have moaned about us selling lallana etc but we needed to in order to build a squad capable of staying in the league and also improving. Without lallana, Lambert, Lovren and Shaw being sold (for well over their value) we wouldn't have got mane, pelle, alderweireld-van dijk- bertrand, romeu, hoedt, probably forster, Cedric, Austin, gabbiadini, lemina. It's progression. what have the players done since they left us? . mane looks potentially world class. Lallana has improved but is very injury prone. everyone else has done sod all since and look half the players they were with us. We've built steadily. Yes, last season was poor by our standards. but poor still got us to 8th, a cup final and we should have gone further in Europe. the board recognised this and replaced the manager at the end of the season. not mid season panic and getting Sam allardyce in! I like the way our club is run. but football is not an exact science. Sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't. We learn and we build and we progress. That's the Southampton way.


12.) 06 Dec 2017 10:52:27
MilkySaint, I am in complete agreement with your views, here! Non the less it's challanging time being a being Saint fan putting up media exploits of continually undermining our snakes and ladders progress. Up one minute down the next.

I wonder if you was Saint manager what would you do in the january and summer Windows?

if you was given the resources required to allow you do whatever you wished keeping it within the bounds of reality of course.

That said it's hard to know if our new majority owners will keep to same ideals we have had these last sevenal seasons?


13.) 06 Dec 2017 16:59:10
I'd like to see us move tadic on and attempt to get a quality, creative number 10 type player. someone with a little bit of pace too. someone like lanzini would be within our budget and who I think could improve the team. I'm sure there are more and possibly better alternatives in europe.


 

 

22 Oct 2017 00:15:27
Hi guys, I thought that the way the teams were set up looked a lot more balanced with Bertrand going forward on the left and creating chances. WBA are a typical Pulis team as Lee Dixon said on TV playing with almost a back six plus the awful weather conditions, we looked much better going forward, all the players worked really hard and MP made some daring substitutions which came off, Redmond looked more disciplined and creative and Boufane's goal was an absolute peach, it reminded me of Ryan Giggs goal vs Arsenal, great contender for goal of the season. When you are playing against a big, disciplined back four crosses into the box are a waste of time and I would like to see more variety there and corners. Great free kick from Bertrand! We are not there yet but if we can carry on from here the season looks brighter. Regards VS.

Vintagesaint

1.) 22 Oct 2017 23:05:07
Good post, agreed. Really positive substitutions that changed the game. WBA are a tough side to break down 😇.


 

 

 

Vintagesaint's banter posts with other poster's replies to Vintagesaint's banter posts

 

22 Jan 2019 02:48:36
Hi guys

Still buzzing after Saturday's great performance, who would have thought that RH in just over a month would have carried out such a transformation! The difference in players who were underperforming and failing, practically written off has been nothing short of remarkable. ps I also include OGS of UTD in this statement! For me it demonstrates that there is a lot of c--p talked about football, it really is a simple game and yet this sport/ industry is full of rank amateurs and charlatans, seasoned professionals ( we all know who they are) yet who failed to play entertaining football, awful recruitment policies, expensive players sidelined drawing huge wages on ridiculous long term contracts. I was watching Everton fan podcasts over the weekend and I totally empathise with them, Everton were dire on Saturday, not for the first time this season! and we were very recently there in the same situation. An article in the sun today hilights how poorly run Everton have been in the last few years paying well over the odds for very average players, their wage bill for only half the squad is £750k per week. I remember we released Martina on a free and he went to Everton and got in the first team! Alexi Sanchez at Utd on £350k per week and his 4 goals have cost £6m each, Ozil at Arsenal on the same £350k. Let's face it we have blown £20m each roughly on Boufal, Carillo, Gabbi, £15m on Hoedt with no guarantee of any return, guys that is £75m! . I don't care how rich you are who wants to or can afford to squander huge sums like that! . I think sometimes we as fans have very short memories and put the blame back on owners for failing to put their money where their mouth is. It makes total economic sense for any club but especially one like Saints to return to concentrating on creating a youth team production line to provide a seamless and ultimately better value and proven method of moulding and making players who fit the "Southampton way" and would hopefully be in the main be of UK origin which would benefit home national teams. COYR Comments and responses welcomed.

Vintagesaint

 

 

04 Jan 2019 09:51:30
Hi ed,

I like most other soccer fans watched the city vs Liverpool game and thought what a great advert it was for the premier league and I was prompted to write after reading the Liverpool website. I genuinely could not believe what I was reading literally blaming everyone from alisson to Salah and writing the team off. This was a game decided on fine margins Manes effort hit the post and stones somehow managed to keep the ball from crossing the line and also stop Salah from bundling it in and then Sane hits the post and it goes in. I thought Liverpool fans were better than this, you are still 4 points clear, but I also remember how much stick Milner used to get from the same fans and he is the epitome of a great soccer professional. So move on and support your team, some of us fans can only dream of your past and no doubt future success. Regards vintage saint lifelong saints fan!

Vintagesaint

{Ed033's Note - I suppose all you can say is, Klopp Out :)


1.) 04 Jan 2019 11:19:56
If only all supporters of other teams were as rational and objective as us eh VS?


2.) 04 Jan 2019 12:27:23
Absolutely!


 

 

04 Nov 2018 17:59:38
Hi guys

What a pitiful, spineless display, to be 1-0 down in 6 minutes, and then City score every 6 minutes 4-1 at halftime. Better response in the second half? Really I don't think so, I know City are a great side but at least compete! Have some pride, our squad looks incredibly poor, previously good players have regressed badly. A combination of poor recruitment, poor training, lack of desire. At 70 minutes most of our squad were exhausted, so as previously I have questioned our fitness. When Poch was here playing high tempo, pressing game everyone was at peak fitness and that has now become the new norm with City, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool, we know they can spend more on 1 player than we can on 3 but look at Bournemouth, less resources but have gone from strength to strength. Wolves look comfortable in their first season. I think this malaise set in several seasons ago and I genuinely do not believe there is anyone capable inside the club of resolving this situation. MH does not look capable of changing this but who would come here? Are there any viable alternatives from the lower leagues here or abroad? Otherwise we do look like relegation fodder yet again!

Vintagesaint

 

 

22 Sep 2018 16:44:25
Hi guys

Watching Sfc vs Liverpool and to me this epitomises the vast gulf between the top teams and the rest. Liverpool can routinely now spend £70m on a player which is our entire budget for a season. Having seen how so many of our recent acquisitions have been a disaster e. g. Carillo, Boufal, Clasie and incidentally are still on our books and purely on loan until presumably we bite the bullet and sell them for a substantial loss, this surely demonstrates the need to concentrate on a youth system which provides a steady stream of quality players with a genuine chance of progressing through to the first team. My knowledge of our youth set up is minimal so any input would be welcome. Regards vs.

Vintagesaint

1.) 22 Sep 2018 18:01:44
We have some OK young players. As always, the level of talent isn't on an even keel with some showing promise and others looking Championship or lower. Even Les Reed didn't express any real enthusiasm about he current youth squads until you get down to about 14 yrs old so some way off the first team.

LR also stated that to make it into the Saints first team, a player will need to show international class. We have no youth players at that level, by which I mean knocking on the door of the senior international side. It seems to me he's painted himself into a corner as a young player may not show what he's capable of until he gets a run of starts in the first team, but if LR doesn't think anyone below international class or potential will start, you have to wonder what's the point for many of them.

The Southampton Way previously meant exactly what you set out in your post; acknowledging our lack of financial power against the big six, the aim was to buy young players with potential and promote from our youth ranks with a view to an academy based first team in the future. That dream now appears to have been axed by the club taking a short term view of surviving in the prem. That's the main reason why teams like West Brom, Stoke and Swansea ended up being relegated so with things on the field not improving, we're headed down a similar path unless the club wakes up and changes its approach.


2.) 22 Sep 2018 18:56:11
Hi figo

Excellent post thank you, I'm afraid you may well be right no youth team policy and some awful recent acquisitions, this looks like it could be a long hard season with hopefully 3 worse teams than us, I'd be interested to hear opinions on where and why it seems to have gone so badly wrong!


3.) 22 Sep 2018 19:24:27
With regards to Liverpool, it was actually a pleasure to watch the, (and I am a very hardened Saints fan) . While they once relied on scoring lots of goals and defence seemed secondary, they now have a solid defence that is always fluid. Their pressing was all over the pitch, not just half hearted pressing, but fast, agressive and direct.
Ok and now us. I thought we moved the ball quicker and more upfield than before. We fought hard to gain possession and then just gave it back with poor passes and long balls. I am not sure this is lack of skill, we just weren't used to being pressed so hard and so quickly.
Hoejberg seemed to cope with it, but Lemina really struggled.
As for playing Long upfront alone, did we really think Liverpool were going to be so worried about him that they wouldn't press so high? Long was completely out of the game.
While it was great to see Targett play, playing alongside RB meant that neither quite were used to that scenario. The Bertrand/ Redmond partnership has been a huge part of our attack. So moving RB inside, replacing him with Targett and then moving Redmond over to the right, was changing too much.
High points . watching Liverpool play!


4.) 22 Sep 2018 20:07:11
There were times today where we played alright football. We had some success out wide on the overlap but for me that’s where the positives end. Our defence is alarming currently, I genuinely believe Hughes is a worse defensive coach than Pellegrino (although not as bad overall) and a team of our size and stature can only achieve success based upon a solid defence like in the Poch and Koeman seasons. I’ll admit I don’t go to games regularly but Liverpool away has become an annual game for me so I was there today and last year and I thought today was worse.


5.) 23 Sep 2018 09:20:31
The thing that was bad about the game is that we lined up with 8 defensive minded players and still conceded 3 goals in the first half. Having Redmond and Long as our 2 attacking players was never going to create any problems for Liverpool. We set up to keep Liverpool out and that really didn't work. We set some really soft goals as well. We were obviously lining up to mark zonally from corners, meaning Mario had all the space in the world to score. Hoedt and Vestergaard both look immobile. They shouldn't be playing together. Again today suggests Hughes doesn't have a clue. We're not going to get any better.


6.) 23 Sep 2018 08:50:40
Where and why has it gone so wrong? As is usual with these sorts of things, I don’t think there is only one problem. Its more likely to be a number of issues that have not been addressed properly or ignored full stop. That said, I do not think the club is shot to bits and everyone should resign or we should all give up and go home.

We’ve gone from having aggressive and ambitious approach and a clear strategy in place under Cortese, to reigning that in due to the club’s financial instability. On the field, we reaped the benefits of this initial aggressive approach as MP was brought in and coached Saints to play our finest football. However, the club couldn’t realistically maintain pace with the big 6 clubs so a new financial model was required with curbed ambition. Looking at Barcelona, they recruit the best young talent, mould them to play their style of football and they have that fixed identity and style through all of their youth teams up to the first team allowing a seamless transition and rotation of players. This was the cornerstone of the Southampton Way. The identity of the football was crucial and unchanging so loss of playing staff or even a head coach should have little impact.

But that’s dismissive of the importance of the personality and ability of a head coach. The likes of Johann Cruyff and Pep Guardiola, so influential on Barcelona’s style of play, may well have been taken aback by the sheer arrogance of such a thought. Our last 3 coaching appointments are a case in point. If you’re to maintain a style of play, in the very least you must appoint managers that can coach the team to play that way. It seems obvious but it was lost somewhere along the way. Its also arrogant to expect the best coaches to simply stand by and watch their best first team players sold out from under them each season and be forced to start the coaching process from scratch each season with a new squad.

The downside to the Southampton Way was that it was a long term project that could take years to have an academy based first team. We were very fortunate under our first two coaches to see such collective improvement so quickly. Good young players added excitement to the first team, but player turnover was very high and seemed unsustainable. When you combine high player turnover with loss of head coaching staff, it was incredible we sustained our league position as we did. With hindsight, we had the right players and the right head coaches at the right time. Together, they were able to get the team playing at a surprisingly high level and maintain it. But after the loss of so many first team players and two good head coaches, the Southampton Way had already started to disappear. Under RK in his final season, exciting young players took a back seat as older players were signed in the transfer windows. So it was under CP and MP2.

The other obvious thing is that for a club to have a uniform style through all of the teams, it required a coaching staff all of the same mind set working collectively for the improvement of the players from top to bottom. But I don’t believe we have ever had the right quality of coaching staff or enough coaches to achieve such player improvement. Rather than having young players reach their best, we have been relying on giving players the chance to reach that level of their own accord. So many reserve players going on loan shouldn’t be an indication of their ability as they will spend a season out of the Southampton coaching fold, playing a different style of football.

So in summary the problems were financial, over-ambition, over-confidence, poor recruitment of coaching staff, poor recruitment of playing staff, a loss of identity and style of play, a loss of focus on producing the very best from our youth players already at the club preferring instead to buy in good young players for the first team and the loss of a long term plan, replacing it instead with a short term goal of simply maintaining Premier League football with the hope of being better each season rather than taking any proactive steps to achieve it. If we continue down the route, it’s a well trodden path with the likes of Stoke, West Brom, Sunderland and Swansea all paying the price for lack of development and long term goals, choosing instead to say they don’t have the money to buy the best players and accepting underperformance so long as they ended outside the bottom three.

But as I say, we’re still in the league and still in a position to turn things around. We still have some good young players and a first team squad capable of so much more than we see week in week out. The club needs to return to a long term approach and apply it with total commitment. Return to the Southampton way from style of play through to development of youth and take an honest and objective review of whether those here now can do as required. If not, replace them at the best time with someone who can. Bring stability to the club. Act swiftly, before all positivity of what we have achieved is forgotten and we are simply seen as another undesirable club for players, becoming a graveyard for careers rather than a springboard to the top table.


7.) 23 Sep 2018 11:26:39
I don’t think we are any better off under Hughes than we were last season. The quality of the football has slightly improved but we aren’t exactly knocking em in for fun are we? Defence is the key issue and because of the drop in that under Hughes I feel we are less equipped to pick up points.


8.) 24 Sep 2018 13:06:05
I think our recent success (not in the last 2 years! ) has also become a key reason for our failure. Other teams have cottoned on and now taken the same approach to pluck top talent from around Europe at an early age, which is making it far more difficult to get what I perceive as our top targets.

We see a lot of players 'rumored' to interest Saints, but i'm seeing us signing less and less of them. Are the likes of Clasie, Boufal, Carillo etc simply just the 'best of the rest' from our summer targets?


9.) 25 Sep 2018 02:18:32
Hi guys
It's taken me some time to reflect on Saturdays performance and what a lame lacklustre performance it was. We all know there is now a massive gulf in finances but really! Are we going to use the excuse that Liverpool are that good? and we simply fail to put up anything but token resistance because if that is the case we do not deserve our Premier League place, what about those loyal travelling fans who give up their time and considerable money, they don't deserve that lack of respect. Can you imagine a Pompey side laying down like that? It would never happen. Also who would want to watch a game like that apart from LFC fans? We earned a lot of respect from all soccer fans last season with our battling performance against Man City and what a great game for the neutral to watch and to resort to this pitiful performance is unforgiveable. We have spent £50m in the summer and we are worse this year and let's face it who wants to pay to watch the dross football that we are playing. It took me until October last season to contact the club 're MP2s hopeless management and I would admit I thought MH coming in was a good choice but I am beginning to have my doubts. I have said before I would prefer less talented players possibly Uk who would give everything out on the pitch than the overpaid foreign mercenaries who either see Saints as a stepping stone to a higher level or else a chance to purely double their salary playing in the Premiership shop window. I have commented on our youth policy and for me it is an investment that we should be placing greater emphasis on particularly when you consider what a train wreck our recent transfer policy has been. I read that Manchester United are considering appointing Paul Mitchell who was the guy who pioneered the Saints black box, you may remember he joined up with MP1 when he joined Spurs but evidently got frustrated with Spurs transfer policy and after a 16 month notice period ( you have to love Levy! ) joined RB Leipzig. Now if Saints were smart they would break the bank to get him back if he had still been here hopefully Boufal, Carillo would have been somebody else's catastrophe! I also saw Gazaniga had a good game for Spurs vs Brighton on Saturday presumably that would have saved the £15m for Gunn, your comments are appreciated. Regards vs.


 

 

18 Sep 2018 18:34:50
Hi again guys I'm here in the states and only watch the team on tv, St Mary's was full of empty spaces on Monday night vs Brighton, how did season ticket sales go this year? Regards vs.

Vintagesaint

 

 

 

Vintagesaint's rumour replies

 

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26 Jan 2019 03:27:45
It seems that there have a number of players quite happy to take their exorbitant salaries and not interested in playing. I think a squad of 18-20 should be big enough to cope. let's move the dead wood out to some other teams wage bill and sit out the season there.

Vintagesaint

 

 

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25 Jan 2019 20:27:58
Hi figo

It confirms what I've read Aston villa as 1 possible destination. RH is definitely not messing about, as you say trimming the fat . I can imagine our weekly wage bill is dropping nicely. let's face it a squad of 25 players solely for the Premier League is bloated to say the least. I think we will see a move towards fewer younger fitter more versatile players who are more multi purpose and can cover a variety of positions, an exciting prospect. coyr viva rh.

Vintagesaint

 

 

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24 Jan 2019 01:24:09
Hi guys

No matter if our opinions differ what is really great to see how many people are posting on here and how well supported Sfc are! Coyr.

Vintagesaint

 

 

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23 Jan 2019 13:55:56
Hi milky

Great post and I believe that you are right and I genuinely believe that holding back on buying in this window is the right way. We are in this situation with an overly large squad because of short term, knee jerk reactionary buying. I totally agree that we have enough quality to avoid relegation this season. I also believe that in the summer the market will be flooded with an excess of players being offloaded by clubs looking to reduce their bloated wage bills e. g. Everton. coyr.

Vintagesaint

 

 

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22 Jan 2019 17:30:04
Hi figo,

I have recently posted a post stating very much that our way forward is back to the Southampton way concentrating on youth development and looking at younger players from lower leagues and I appreciate RK is now being more open and looking to survival this season and look more closely at the squad in the summer. I also accept what St Martin is saying and let's face it we missed relegation by the skin of our teeth 2017-2018.I myself was in contact with the club in Oct 2017 criticising MP and saints playing style, too slow and ponderous and too many passes going backwards or sideways. I totally support RH and in such a short time what he has achieved is miraculous but RK has earned a huge salary, squandered tens of millions of £s and he was overseeing Les Reed so he cannot distance himself totally from the blame and let's face it confirms he might know ice hockey but knows Jack about soccer. i just hope we can hold onto RH for a decent time ie 4-5 seasons where we can instigate a long term viable, considered policy rather than knee jerk reactionary buys which have proved to be an abject failure. Anyway onwards and upwards. coyr.

Vintagesaint

 

 

 

Vintagesaint's banter replies

 

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01 Feb 2019 05:07:36
Good post ggsy,
I think your predictions are not far off. I know lots of fans were disappointed that we didn't bring in any new blood in but let's face it our recent January purchases have been nothing short of disastrous. I will be honest I'm not totally up to date with the Saints full squad but I list loan players I know of Clasie, Carillo, Cedric Boufal, Hoedt, Gabbi at a value of roughly £85m plus others that you guys care to add. If we look at worst case scenario and their present clubs choose not to convert their loan to buying them, where would SFC be if they all come back in the summer? A huge squad of overpriced failures wòrth nowhere near their perceived market value!
I wonder if this has dictated our actions this January. I would welcome input from anyone with greater knowledge. coyr.

Vintagesaint

 

 

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31 Jan 2019 15:17:37
Hi guys

Great posts, yes last night's performance wasn't great but we all know who Palace have beaten recently and losing very narrowly to Liverpool scoring 3 so that was a point gained.
I would be happy with a draw against Burnley on Saturday, Utd were incredibly lucky to draw with them Tuesday night and I think Dyche has got them back to the old Burnley way. The 3 bottom teams have all got tough games and look unlikely to get much from those and we can hopefully put some daylight between us and them but don't forget this is the Premiership who foresaw Bmth vs Chelsea? I read Saints have turned down loans for CA so I'm not expecting anyone coming in. We all know RH has stated that the squad is too big, but with no other competitions to worry about we 14 games to amass around 16-17 points which this squad is capable of doing and then we have now to the summer season to properly evaluate who is going, who is staying and the potential replacements. i'm more and more impressed with RH when he manages a soccer team, he manages every aspect and yes it could be tight this year but it's obvious there is a new fire and resilience which we haven't seen in a long time but I genuinely believe that this is a new era and let's just encourage the team, fill St Mary's with people and noise and steadily climb the table. COYR.

Vintagesaint

 

 

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19 Jan 2019 17:40:24
A great result, the way we are playing on the front foot, putting other teams under pressure, hitting the woodwork and deserving the victory, a bit of luck with the Digne own goal but caused by the pressure he was under. We look like a team transformed!
RH should have his contract extended now, talent like his will already be on bigger clubs radar. It looks like 2 of the relegation places may be decided with Huddersfield and Fulham now we just need to keep playing in the same way steadily moving up the table. I am really impressed how many of the players are beginning to fulfill their potential so 2019 is looking a lot brighter. coyr.

Vintagesaint

 

 

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07 Jan 2019 12:01:04
As a non United fan but an admirer I think this article is extremely well written, very perceptive and covers every aspect of the pressures and intricacies of arguably the biggest club in the world. Its amazing football is a simple game yet how few supposed top managers fail to get it right. I wish OGS all the best . regards vs.

Vintagesaint

 

 

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04 Jan 2019 12:27:23
Absolutely!

Vintagesaint